Honda CX500 & GL500 Forum

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06-21-2008, 12:01 PM tntchitwood Joined on 03-02-2008 Pine Knot, KY Posts 509 Locked up Well guys, looks like I am done for a while. After putting in the new cam and water pump........I got tags yesterday and took it for it's shake down run today. It was running the best it ever has, then started losing power and died. It restarted and ran maybe another hundred feet. It was making a slight tapping sound, barely noticable. The motor seized everything locked up (luckily I was quick on the clutch). Oh well in a few days when I can look at the bike without tearing up I will pull the motor and see what happened. Tom '82 Silverwing Chopper '02 750 Shadow http://choppercharles.com/cs/forums/29599/ShowPost.aspx    Report

06-21-2008, 5:37 PM LRCXed Joined on 05-15-2008 Sacramento, California Posts 373 Re: Locked up That sucks tntchitwood Good luck. If your going to do something, do it right, don't do it half as@*d. http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/    Report

06-21-2008, 5:55 PM Panther Joined on 05-09-2006 Las Vegas, NV Posts 274 Re: Locked up Wow. I hope it isn't to bad. Peace & Light >^..^< .......... '83 GL650swi "My Little Grey Lady" '82 GL500swi parts bike '78 DT175 '86 LS650 Milady's bike    Report

06-24-2008, 5:29 AM BearCX Joined on 03-11-2008 Roseworthy, Sth Aust Posts 170 Re: Locked up slight tapping sound and locked up......Hmmm. Could be a spun bearing, blocks off the flow of oil. Just a thought, hope its not too serious, best of luck. If you're still in control...You're not going fast enough.    Report

07-04-2008, 11:50 AM tntchitwood Joined on 03-02-2008 Pine Knot, KY Posts 509 Re: Locked up OK guys, I need some opinions here. At first diagnosis the motor was locked up. It would not turn by the 17 mm bolt in the front of the engine, The engine was still hot. Two weeks later,I have drained the oil..no shavings of any kind (silver or gold). Removed the radiator.no oil and water mix. Backed off the valve adjusters all the way and tried the 17 mm bolt again......It turned! the only resistance was the compression. Now......Could it have been when I changed the cam.....I screwed the valve adjuster in to where it just touched the top of the valve stem and snugged down the locking nut (improper adjustment I know). Then when the motor really started to warm up the parts expanded and applied too much pressure to the valve stem causing them to bind up, maybe hold the valves slightly open? what do you guys think? I am considering putting it back together (the motor is not out), adjusting the valves correctly and trying it again. What do you think about my theories of desperation? '82 Silverwing Chopper '02 750 Shadow http://choppercharles.com/cs/forums/29599/ShowPost.aspx    Report

07-04-2008, 1:09 PM Pooterhead Joined on 06-07-2008 Lakesite,tn Posts 54 Re: Locked up If you think that is what happened you might want to pull the heads and make sure the pistons didn't smack a valve. 1980 cx500c (fubar) you meet the fastest people on a honda!    Report

07-04-2008, 4:44 PM tntchitwood Joined on 03-02-2008 Pine Knot, KY Posts 509 Re: Locked up There was no ill sounds at all. A barely noticable tic. Nothing to indicate there was a problem. Surely I would have heard the piston hit something. '82 Silverwing Chopper '02 750 Shadow http://choppercharles.com/cs/forums/29599/ShowPost.aspx    Report

07-04-2008, 5:23 PM LRCXed Joined on 05-15-2008 Sacramento, California Posts 373 Re: Locked up Iv'e been scratchin my brain with this one! The best starting point right now would be to do a compression test and see what you come up with since it turns over now. If you have 2 totally different readings on each side. Do it wet also with oil as well as dry and maybe back off the valve adjustments and do it again to see if it gets better or stays the same. Have you checked the valve clearance after it died? What was it if you did? Gold or brass in the oil might not show as quickly as you shut it down when it bogged down. Does the oil light go off when your cranking it with the starter? IF you have an oil light? Let us know what you come up with on that! If your going to do something, do it right, don't do it half as@*d. http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/    Report

07-04-2008, 5:44 PM tntchitwood Joined on 03-02-2008 Pine Knot, KY Posts 509 Re: Locked up I don't have an oil light. I just finished straining the oil through a t-shirt. There WAS a small amount of gold shavings. I do know that is not a good thing. Since it is unstuck I may stick it back together (put the carbs back on and set the valves). and try to start it. See what it sounds like. Because of the gold shavings should I go ahead and write this motor off? I can't afford a motor right now. It will have to wait till a later date. What do you guys think? Should I try to get this motor running again or shove it over in the corner for now? '82 Silverwing Chopper '02 750 Shadow http://choppercharles.com/cs/forums/29599/ShowPost.aspx    Report

07-04-2008, 6:29 PM bfknova Joined on 03-15-2008 Nova Scotia Posts 478 Re: Locked up Aye Tom - sounds logical - as remember everyone thought I smacked a piston when my cam chain slipped - and maybe they did - but upon inspection with micrometer they were all within specs - albeit a lot of carbon build up on the valve heads - so after taking them out and cleaning and grinding the valves n' heads - the ol' girl purrs with just a very slight tap - but surely they tapped a little even when new ...... now, the one thing you mentioned is that it slowly lost power - which is puzzling - as mostly these things quit suddenly - with a bang ....... so digging back into my experience column - well I've only had a couple complete seizures - "Honda 750" and ol' "Jawa 450" ..... both of which were piston related ...... Anyway, keep me informed and I'll try my best to help where I can ... leastwise, with incouragement to carry on - as you got one really nice ride !!!!!!  Cheers, n' Happy Trails Ahead, Bryan Keep the rubber side down and alway shake a bro's hand when passing or standing still - EH !!    Report

07-04-2008, 8:02 PM LRCXed Joined on 05-15-2008 Sacramento, California Posts 373 Re: Locked up Even before doing the reassembly, I would do the compression test. You need to figure out WHY this happened in the first place. Some small detail may have been missed during the rebuild that caused the lack of oil flow (if thats what it was). Maybe an O-ring on the pump! I would start takeing the thing apart AFTER a compression test. I have seen motors saved from the brink of disaster with a little polishing on a crank and a new set of bearings. Who knows, maybe the oil pump chain jumped. You don't want to end up doing MORE damage if you don't need to. Do what you would do for someone else if they brought it to you to help them figure out the problem. Forget it's yours for a while! Open it up and go Backwards! If your going to do something, do it right, don't do it half as@*d. http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/    Report

07-04-2008, 9:02 PM bfknova Joined on 03-15-2008 Nova Scotia Posts 478 Re: Locked up My oil pump chain was very loose - and hate to say, but just maybe you forgot to tighten a bolt when replacing the oil pump - (it happens) - so re-trace your steps as surely think it's more likely something you've just worked on - speaking of which - I also forgot to tighten the oil drain bolt on my rebuild - but after seeing a small puddle of oil on the floor, at first thought a bad gasket seal, but followed it back and saw I had only hand tightened it ........ also had a leak in the o'ring line near the water pump - so took it apart again and saw it hadn't seated properly - so again, it happens mate - and just take your time and double check your work - which on the bright side, at least now you know the motor will turn ..... though always leave a little space on your tappets ........ otherwise, after my triple bypass rebuild - I'm gonna play the bike as new - and only ride real easy for at least 500 miles ..... along with changing the oil a couple times in between ........ so wish me luck - as I surely wanna get in a couple rides this summer ...... Cheers, Bryan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Keep the rubber side down and alway shake a bro's hand when passing or standing still - EH !!    Report

07-05-2008, 8:17 AM tntchitwood Joined on 03-02-2008 Pine Knot, KY Posts 509 Re: Locked up Bryan, I wish you all the luck in the world. With the care you have taken in rebuilding your motor I know it will do well. I will do a compression test sometime today and let you guys know the results. I have the valve covers off, while it is cranking for the compression test oil should squirt out the tops of the pushrods shouldn't it. That is something else I will look for while cranking. Tom '82 Silverwing Chopper '02 750 Shadow http://choppercharles.com/cs/forums/29599/ShowPost.aspx    Report

07-05-2008, 8:29 AM hakko808 Joined on 05-25-2008 Fargo, ND Posts 209 Re: Locked up Did you strip off the temp gauge along with the oil light? To mee it sounds as if it overheated.    Report

07-05-2008, 9:10 AM bfknova Joined on 03-15-2008 Nova Scotia Posts 478 Re: Locked up Thanks Tom - I'm planning on taking my bike out tomorrow - as shortly I'm off to the casino with two women, so imagine I'll continue drinking and partying till the wee hours again (so best to walk) .... and personally I'm still thinking it's something you've recently worked on - oil pump or water pump issue ...... both of which are easily accessible ...... yet if it's the camshaft - well you know it's a bigger job yet doable ..... otherwise, I don't believe it's your pistons as then it would continue to seize the motor tight - albeit maybe your valves also need a checking ....... ah what fun it is eh !!!!! Just remember we're all rooting for you to succeed ..... Cheers, n' Happy Trails Ahead, Bryan Keep the rubber side down and alway shake a bro's hand when passing or standing still - EH !!    Report

07-06-2008, 9:01 AM LRCXed Joined on 05-15-2008 Sacramento, California Posts 373 Re: Locked up Hows progress tntchitwood? Any good news yet? If your going to do something, do it right, don't do it half as@*d. http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/    Report

07-06-2008, 10:07 AM tntchitwood Joined on 03-02-2008 Pine Knot, KY Posts 509 Re: Locked up Yesterday my mother in law had plumbing problems, of course that had to be cured before I could work on the bike. So....this morning I did the compression check, both cylinders were even at 120 psi. Oil was pumping to the top of the heads. I believe it would have started if it would have had the carbs on it (I was preparing for engine removal). The valves were working up and down nicely, and with the plugs out the motor spun freely. The plugs looked good (chocolate milk colored), I expected them to be melted or smashed. Now a couple of questions: has anybody ever heard of these motors "vapor locking"? I was running straight water, it was the trial run and had not put the antifreeze in it yet, only straight water to check for leaks. If I had a leak I did not want to lose the antifreeze. Would this have made it overheat to the point of vapor locking? Is 120 psi ok on the compression test? I have missplaced my repair manual, I think I took it to work with me to study on during my breaks. Should I tear it on down and check the front of the engine, the oil pump chain, the water pump? What else should I look for? Tom '82 Silverwing Chopper '02 750 Shadow http://choppercharles.com/cs/forums/29599/ShowPost.aspx    Report

07-06-2008, 10:43 AM tntchitwood Joined on 03-02-2008 Pine Knot, KY Posts 509 Re: Locked up I just answered alot of my own questions. I was feeling froggy so I bolted the carbs back on, put the plugs back in and fired it up. Fired right up and ran great for about five seconds, then seizure again. It did not run long enough to warm up so that answers my questions about getting hot and vapor locking.I may have really done it now. Looks like it is motor tear down time again to see what is going on. What say ye all? Tom '82 Silverwing Chopper '02 750 Shadow http://choppercharles.com/cs/forums/29599/ShowPost.aspx    Report

07-06-2008, 12:54 PM LRCXed Joined on 05-15-2008 Sacramento, California Posts 373 Re: Locked up Yep, it's time to open it up. Take the front off an I think you'll find the ansers in there. I'll bet the crank and rods are damaged and gauling together. 120 psi sounds fine, I'll look it up later to let you know. You may want to pull a rod cap and see how the bearings look. If your going to do something, do it right, don't do it half as@*d. http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/    Report

07-06-2008, 1:31 PM bfknova Joined on 03-15-2008 Nova Scotia Posts 478 Re: Locked up Aye Tom, five seconds on a cold engine should not overheat (regardless of water or no liquids) - so must be something else - and believe you probably should think about tearing it down ........ speaking of which, I don't know if there's such a thing as overcleaning the engine - but my sparks seem to have found oil - hence: maybe thinking I could have cleaned the piston heads too much, or as most everything inside is new, it may take a few miles to start carboning up again ...... anyway, it's sounding sweet, n' seems to respond to my (albeit stationary) reving for 15 minutes at a time ....... as I want to slowly break in the new parts without any extreme loads ....... so overall, it's getting close to being "On the Road Again" ...... and truly want to encourage you to keep plugging away - and keep us informed on your progress ........ damn - it was such a nice day here - would've been great to check out the new styles of bikini's at the beach <grin> ...... oh, well, summer's just starting !!!!! Cheers, n' Happy Trails Ahead, Bryan Keep the rubber side down and alway shake a bro's hand when passing or standing still - EH !!    Report

07-06-2008, 2:48 PM LRCXed Joined on 05-15-2008 Sacramento, California Posts 373 Re: Locked up Well. I looked it up and all models from 78 to 82 say compression should be 171 PSI. I had a compression tester once that was giving me bad readings though. Make sure yours is giveing the right readings! Did you back off the valve adjustment before you started it? I still think you should back trace and pull the thing apart. Something is missing or missaligned keeping oil flow from getting where it needs to be flowing. Or there is a spacer missing in the system causeing it to bind up. Are you sure all the spacers and shimes etc... are in the proper places? Without haveing your manual for assembly referance, you might have missed something. Hopefully there was no parts left over or mixed up with the old ones that you missed putting back in! Check this sight for parts break down by area of the motor for referance. http://mrcycles.com/ Its for parts, but it gives you an exploded view for referance. Good luck, hope the best is the out come. If your going to do something, do it right, don't do it half as@*d. http://globalcxglvtwins.hostingdelivered.com/    Report

07-06-2008, 3:16 PM