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Technical Help Forum
Started by hebbyg at 07-16-2008 10:49 PM. Topic has 10 replies.
  
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 07-16-2008, 10:49 PM
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hebbyg
Joined on 04-16-2008
Posts 17
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drive shaft pinon support bearing failures? hot final drive, what's up?
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well guys, I am planning a 500 mile-er, leaving this wednesday for a pals memorial.
I just got my 82 GL500 back on the road after cutting everything off it and making it a naked-retro lookin thing.
It's a proven bike. I've not rode it more than 3.5 hours at a time in one direction.
After becoming even more intimate with it since it's modifications, and upon inspecting it while at operating temperature while out on rides, I've noticed my final drive housing gets mighty warm riiiiight about where I believe a support bearing would be found just forward of where the actual pinion gear would reside within the housing.. I can touch it and keep my hand on it for a few seconds at a time, and it is fairly localized heat with the rest of the housing within 4 inches of it only being warm ot the touch, but what's up? I've searched and searched even with the broken search using the google thing like that guy showed (thank god, I thought I ws goin crazy). I can't find any mention of ANY failures of anything in those drives.
I'm even looking at trying to look at some forums for other honda shaftdrives of that era to give me an idea as to if anybody ever feels their housings out of curiosity. I gotta get into this thing as it's my only ride, this is worrying me badly as....you know, heat, friction, I don't hear any scratchy or grate-ey noise coming outta that drive otherwise.I gotta pull the plugs and rotate the tire while 5th is engaged to see if I can hear anything or feel resistance or scrape-ey feellings lol.
Guys, any input?
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07-17-2008, 3:16 AM
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joeinblackwater
 
Joined on 07-12-2008
Blackwater, U.K.
Posts 29
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Re: drive shaft pinon support bearing failures? hot final drive, what's up?
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I may be wrong, but, "they all do that sir".
Crown wheel and pinion set ups usually have nice pre-loaded taper roller bearings in them and are very tough things. They are, however quite energy lossy, hence the heat. I run synthetic gear oil in mine and it does seem to transfer the heat a little better. Unless someone with more intimate knowledge tells you otherwise I would not worry. If it moves smoothly and is silent with not too much backlash I would think it is fine.
Oh, and have a great trip.
You can never have too many forms of personal transport.
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07-17-2008, 5:22 AM
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DAVID
Joined on 05-16-2007
FORNEY TX
Posts 622
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Re: drive shaft pinon support bearing failures? hot final drive, what's up?
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I agree and also, why would you want to rotate the rear wheel while in gear. Just put it in neutral and spin it to listen for a noise.
82 GL500
81 KDX175
If all else fails, read the instructions
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07-17-2008, 7:43 AM
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hebbyg
Joined on 04-16-2008
Posts 17
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Re: drive shaft pinon support bearing failures? hot final drive, what's up?
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5th gear? You're right. What was I thinking, it was late and I've been on the road for three days without internet and all I wanted to do was post this
query. I've been thinking about it for a week since I installed an exhaust cutout so I could count out hot exhaust gasses as a factor in heating the housing up. Not sure how I could ever visualize that drive as anything but a ring and pinion constantly meshed so...it's kinda funny.
But seriously...If your housings DO warm up guys, if your out in the next few days, could you give a feel and tell me where you feel the heat might be centralized? And....'very warm'. Is that an approporiate way to describe this condition? I find it odd that throughout these forums and even on google searches, there are no newbies out there who haven't been spooked by this before. Could you guys giv me a quick rundown on assesing the backlash of the setup? Am I right in thinking, put it in gear and rotate the tire by hand back and forth? If so, how many inches of roatation might I be anticipating for a normal setup?
Thanks again guys.
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07-17-2008, 9:42 AM
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RichNCT
Joined on 03-02-2006
Posts 2,139
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Re: drive shaft pinon support bearing failures? hot final drive, what's up?
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I don't think you'll be able to tell much, because most of the "play" (and there is a lot) is in the transmission output area. I think afinal drive will make noise for quite awhile before failing completely.. Drain the oil and inspect it carefully for metal flake to put your mind at ease. If it's smooth, quiet and not leaking oil, it's fine. Mine run moderately hot all over as I recall, at least after an extended run. Some folks have reported they run cooler with synthetic lube. Worry not, ride on!
Born to be relatively wild
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07-17-2008, 9:47 AM
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DAVID
Joined on 05-16-2007
FORNEY TX
Posts 622
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Re: drive shaft pinon support bearing failures? hot final drive, what's up?
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Measured from the sidewall of the tire, I have 1-1/32" of rotational movement in gear. I also have somewhat of a noise when I spin the back tire but I think it is the gears meshing but could be pinion bearings. I have checked the rear axle bearings and they are good. It sounded this way when I bought it 15 months ago and I have put 16,000 mile on it and it hasn't worsened.I just change the gear lube 2-3 time a year and call it good. When I get home I will measure the temp with my infared temp gun for you.
82 GL500
81 KDX175
If all else fails, read the instructions
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07-17-2008, 10:42 AM
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DaveF
Joined on 06-11-2008
Lawrenceville, GA
Posts 228
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Re: drive shaft pinon support bearing failures? hot final drive, what's up?
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Synthetic gear oil made my GL500's rear end run much quieter and cooler. Highly recommended.
My Home Page
1981 GL500I
1982 GL500I
1983 GL650I
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07-17-2008, 1:42 PM
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Anonymous
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Re: drive shaft pinon support bearing failures? hot final drive, what's up?
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thanks for your interest on this guys.
I wanted to shoot my housing with one of those pyro gauges too, so I could actually find the hot spot and temp, but after hearing about the previous poster's wheel rotation play amount....I think I am still in the ballpark. And my back wheel spins like very easily and is very nearly silent....I think I might just stick with normal oil, as it's had it all it's life, and hope for the best.
I'll change the oil with 90 weight hypoid and give er. But will check the drained oil for junk. Thanks again guys.
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07-19-2008, 2:23 PM
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drneo
Joined on 10-20-2006
Duluth, MN
Posts 225
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Re: drive shaft pinon support bearing failures? hot final drive, what's up?
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I've suffered several drive failures in my bike's lifttime. The first had torn seal that leaked all of the fluid out and the second chewed up the smaller of the gears. Both times, I've driven over 200+ miles to get home.
I highly agree with DaveF about synthetic oil, specifically amsoil severe gear, lowering the temperature of the final drive. After changing my oil type, I've driving my bike over 1000 miles nearly nonstop without having the same temp's that I use to get with dino oil.
I thought about adding a compuer heat sink to the flat, lower surface of the pumpkin, but after adding the Amsoil and the 1000 miles, I don't know if it would help that much.
I may be able to get a temp rating on mine sometime. Let us know what you find out!
~Thom
1982 GL500I - "Couchy" 52,000 miles down... 48,000 to go.
www.trainwiththom.com
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07-21-2008, 3:08 PM
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DAVID
Joined on 05-16-2007
FORNEY TX
Posts 622
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Re: drive shaft pinon support bearing failures? hot final drive, what's up?
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Like I said before, mine is not silent. 145 degrees at the top of the pinion bearing area. 178 degrees at the drain plug. I would like to know what kind of temps a quiet unit generates. I do know from testing front wheel drive bearings on cars, a bad bearing can generate as little as 5-10 degrees more than a good one.
82 GL500
81 KDX175
If all else fails, read the instructions
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07-25-2008, 6:46 PM
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RustyTec
Joined on 08-26-2007
Dallas
Posts 294
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Re: drive shaft pinon support bearing failures? hot final drive, what's up?
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Nico,
Glad to see you - getting it on. You will be one proud Poppa, when you - get-her-done. I wish you much patience and perseverance. Not to mention the power too choose which to use,
I think I paid $8-9 at Pep Boys or Auto Zone for a sheet of rubberized fiber. It is 10” x 26” x 1/32” (254mm x 660mm x 0,79mm). It was made by ROL Gaskets; RK1016. - I hope 10” is wide enough. Check that.
$6.59+ s/h:
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?MfrCode=ROL&MfrPartNumber=RK1016&CategoryCode=3540
I wish I could, but I do not remember how I traced the inside of the Spark Generator Cover(GL and ’82 models only) . Just that I did a good job. (I must have been in ‘the zone’), I used a spent .22 brass casing to cut the all of the bolt-holes. It didn’t work very well; I had to keep re-crimp-ing the casing. You need steel-dies to do it right.
Lead-sheet can be had at any plumber’s mart. Roof vents come to mind. Old ones being removed are the best source for cheap.
Good luck.
RustyTec on a ’81 GL500.
She’s not my bike. I’m just her current boyfriend. -
She gets everything that she needs, and most of what she wants. - Works for us.
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